July 25, 2023
How Working Memory Impacts Your Financial Habits
Have you ever imagined what it would be like to have a personal assistant that transcribes your thoughts, keeping track of the tiniest tasks that your memory can't hold onto? As someone living with ADHD, this isn't just a passing thought for me, but a constant reality. Join me as we navigate the intricate maze of ADHD, IQ, and working memory, and how this intertwining impacts my everyday life, from conversations and soccer practice to financial management.
The revelation of my IQ test results, a solid 109, puts my verbal comprehension and perceptual reasoning above average. But here's the catch – my working memory is in the 34th percentile. Poor working memory isn't just about forgetting where I put my keys, it's a daily battle that affects my conversations, my sports practice, and most critically, my financial habits. It's about struggling to remember crucial details, even my own phone number. But hey, we're not here to dwell on the struggle. Let's dive into how we can turn these challenges into our strength!
The moment you connect the dots between ADHD, poor working memory, and financial habits is the moment you start gaining control of your finances. Trust me, I've been there. We all know how one impulsive decision can lead to a cascade of unwarranted spending. Been there, done that. But with the help of financial tracking and building cognitive flexibility, I've been able to regain control. It's a journey, but it's doable. Let's embark on this together, learn from my strategies and experiences, and find out how to take control of our finances amidst our ADHD challenges.
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00:01 - ADHD Money Management Struggles
03:24 - IQ Test Results and Memory Difficulty
06:25 - ADHD, Working Memory, and Financial Habits
11:32 - Impulse Spending and Financial Improvements
WEBVTT
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Welcome back to ADHD Money Talk, the show that helps dynamic but distracted ADHD brains take back control over their money in order to stress less, live a more rich life and open up new and amazing possibilities.
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And either humble and quite ADHD-host, dave DeWitt.
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My ADHD is awful.
00:00:22.109 --> 00:00:34.134
Sometimes it just drives me up the wall because the level of working memory that I have is terrible.
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Sometimes I'm doing this podcast and I'm like stuttering, or it's choppy and I'm pausing and I have to keep talking because I can't hold a dang thaw in my mind for long enough for me to be able to speak it out smoothly, because things come in my brain and it drops in out in drop, drop, drop, drop.
00:00:51.906 --> 00:01:01.972
So that's how I can go from starting a task on my computer and maybe in five minutes I've already started four other tasks and I cannot just continue doing what I should be doing.
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And I always have had this thought of this dream of when I start a task on my computer, the words for what I'm doing and need to keep doing would just stay on the computer and be transcribed from my brain directly onto a big script like big text on the computer, so I can just continue doing that thing and not forget about it, because within five seconds I sometimes forget and then I'm on to a new thing.
00:01:26.688 --> 00:01:29.810
So even if I break up my day, you know I go on.
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I'm using Sonsama now to help me daily plan and it does help me daily plan, but I can only daily plan so many small tasks, but then, when little things, there's always that little, really small task that you forgot about, that's in between your other small tasks, that you thought were all of them, and then you start doing the tasks that you planned, but then you have to do the other little tasks, but then you're flipping to anything of another one and then every time that I'm starting a new task that pops my mind it's usually like an email I forgot to answer or it's like something like that along those lines.
00:02:03.665 --> 00:02:06.102
I can't just write down.
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I mean I could, maybe I should, but I couldn't put it in the app every time like, okay, this is what you're doing now, because sometimes the tasks literally will just take two minutes and to like take time to open up the app and like write tasks down, I could have already done it.
00:02:18.584 --> 00:02:20.108
So it's just this big mess.
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You know, here I am talking about it, but this is just my struggle.
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My working memory is so bad.
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If you look at my IQ score, I'm a brilliant 109, I'm like average, very average intelligence, almost above average, but I'm average.
00:02:35.983 --> 00:02:48.087
So I have to accept that I think 110, in some way 110 would mean that I was like more, like superior or like above average, but I'm 109, so I'm average.
00:02:48.087 --> 00:02:59.721
And I was talking to my ADHD coach who I hope is listening, and she's like a 139 and I'm like dang, that's so smart and I thought I was like sort of smart.
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But when I found out that I was a 109 because of this test, I took this.
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I took IQ test twice actually once when I was very small, like six years old, and one when I was in high school, and I scored 109 both times exactly.
00:03:13.467 --> 00:03:15.712
So I feel pretty confident that I'm a 109.
00:03:15.712 --> 00:03:22.824
But if you look at it and we're going to get into what this podcast is about we are going to talk about money today.
00:03:24.502 --> 00:03:25.203
The IQ test I got.
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This was part of my like you know, if you listen to one of the early episodes, I talked about this but I had like very hardcore testing done.
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I took all these tests.
00:03:34.381 --> 00:03:41.514
I took Bender, gestalt, Stanford, bonaise Intelligence, detroit Test of Learning aptitude.
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Detroit Test of Learning aptitude 4, brown EDD scales.
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Burns and Rowe in formal word recognition inventory.
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Burns and Rowe, yada, yada, nelson, denny reading, woodcock, jaffin tests of achievement God, that was like a test subject.
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I felt like here's my IQ scores for each section of the IQ test verbal comprehension 114, 82nd percentile okay.
00:04:07.182 --> 00:04:10.576
So I guess I've always excelled with words more so than numbers.
00:04:10.576 --> 00:04:11.641
Huh, I'm an official planner.
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What the heck am I doing in this job?
00:04:13.210 --> 00:04:14.114
Just kidding, I'm not.
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I'm not picking that way, I'm not.
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I don't have imposter syndrome, I swear.
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Perceptual reasoning 108, 70th percentile okay, I'll take it.
00:04:22.769 --> 00:04:27.444
Ranging speed 70 or 109, okay.
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73rd percentile okay, I'll take it.
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Okay.
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Feeling pretty good, full scale IQ 109, that's the full one, and I skipped one because I'm just so ashamed of it.
00:04:40.281 --> 00:04:43.348
Working memory 94 and the 34th percentile.
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So this has always made me think, like, to some extent I'm like Is it ADHD or is that part of my brain just broken?
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Like, do I get hit in the head really hard on my working memory section of my brain?
00:04:56.615 --> 00:05:00.714
I don't entertain those thoughts really, because it could be, it could not be.
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I don't know.
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I don't really care.
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I've accepted everything about it, but like it's the worst part of my ADHD, the first year of working memory is how it's most affected.
00:05:09.733 --> 00:05:18.310
It's how it's gotten, and working memory is one of those things where, like it can totally make you look dumb, like it can be feel dumb, look dumb.
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People will think you're dumb.
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That's what I experienced with my soccer story and my sports and sus.
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Because, because what this is?
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You forget the name, you get lost in conversation, you can't remember what they had just said, you have nothing to say back to the person because you're too busy trying to scramble to remember what they said.
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And then you feel awkward and then you just nod your head and stare blankly or stare through them and say I can't wait for this guy to start talking.
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What's my way out of here?
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I feel like a dummy and that sucks, it's not, doesn't feel good, it's the worst.
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Or, in my case, soccer practice Coach is saying okay, you go, you go from this spot to this spot to this spot and back and forth and then loop, you loop back and forth.
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Okay, go do that.
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And everyone's like yeah, we got that, it's easy.
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And I'm up.
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I'm like, oh, okay, I won in the wrong direction five times in a row and then I'm being yelled at and and all that.
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It sucks, it hurts and it sucks.
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So, but working memory sucks and ADHD, and that hurts money too.
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Like, how are you supposed to really keep track of when I'm spending, what's coming, what's coming out?
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I can't even remember my own phone number sometimes.
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It's crazy.
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So, like, working memory sucks and that is an executive function, and ADHD is a disorder of being executive function.
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This is a disorder of your prefrontal cortex that is not getting enough dopamine.
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I'm not a doctor, I'm not a scientist, I'm not a person that knows things officially about these things, so just don't take my word for it.
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So, just what I, my understanding, my understanding is that we have, we every humans need, like dopamine keeps us feeling good and motivated, right, it's like the stain that just like keeps us like appropriately motivated to do things, to get appropriate rewards at the appropriate time and to understand the long term consequences of things and so that you act appropriately in alignment with those standard long term.
00:07:14.997 --> 00:07:24.528
You know, this is this is what it gives you when it's regulating through your brain properly and it's not gone half the time and then, but let's stay in there when you do something crazy.
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So that's what ADHD is to me.
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So I feel like I have it on that front.
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And then I also feel like I have it on the front of like extra bad working memory, because it's just brutal sometimes.
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So you know, working memory is like the sticky note in your brain that you can see and remember.
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It's like you just took a note down, you just heard someone's name and it's stuck on your brain.
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You can't forget it.
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It's there.
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You're holding that information.
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You can only hold so much of your working memory, but it's there.
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And so when it comes to financial stuff, you're like, okay, this bill's due on this day, whatever it's on the sticky note.
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But that sticky note, the R sticky note, is like looking at the colorblind test.
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When you're colorblind, you can't remember, you can't see it, it's blurry.
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You're like, where is the number?
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I don't see it, I can't remember.
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And then, and so if you're in the middle needing to make a decision about finances or whatever and you just can't remember what the right information is, you're either going to just shut down and do nothing or you're just going to make the decision go to a bad.
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You'll figure out the consequences later.
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I mean, it's not easy to keep track of anything Like.
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That's why I really I've always recommend tracking your expenses.
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You have to make that routine or the habit so automatic, like it's got to be like okay, I spent money on a thing.
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I need to go right down in my spending journal what I wrote.
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You need to make it so that you're doing that in the same way that when you sit down on the toilet you take out your phone.
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You know that's a muscle memory, that just happens.
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You need to develop habits through whatever means you possibly can to get that done, and I talked to a lot of people who want to control their.
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When they pay bills.
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They want to do it manually, they want to feel in control.
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A lot of times this comes because you are so paycheck to paycheck that you just want to make sure you know by doing it manually, you can make absolutely sure that you have money in the account and won't be getting overdraft fees.
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So if that's you, then I.
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Well, if that's you.
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Well, honestly, most people that are doing that are pretty actually good at it because they're so used to it, because it's a rookie, it's a habit.
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So you need to get routine and habit going in other areas, like tracking your expenses, because it's not the bills that are the problem, it's the handing over of the card.
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It's that it's usually the problem and just a complete lack of awareness of what's actually going out besides the bills.
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You know you've paid the energy bill enough times, you've paid the rent enough times to be able to remember that, because eventually, like we can remember things, our long-term memory isn't so bad, but it's all the things that are temporary.
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So we're probably like 12 minutes into this podcast, 13 minutes, and this podcast is about executive functions and money.
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I hope you got that point.
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I know I just started talking about me and my problems and my working memory, but we're going to keep talking for the next six minutes or so about the other executive functions that it affects.
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So let's continue on Impulse control.
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Impulse control, you know I always feel like they're all related, like my brain doesn't really separate out very well, like, yes, I understand that impulse control is like you have an impulse to do something and you can't control it, but it's all interrelated because how much of you be unable to stop the impulses due to the fact that you can't remember the reason why you shouldn't do the thing in the first place.
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So it's like working memory, impulse or interrelated, regardless.
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We all know what it's like.
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I mean, this year I had five months good, like I was as tracking and as, unfortunately, dictatorial as I ever have been about expending, expenses and stuff.
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Part of it's because I'm a little bit overly controlling, just being honest, and I work on that.
00:11:18.009 --> 00:11:25.923
But there's always a central theme and it's like if I'm not in control or I'm not controlling, then I feel like it's lost and I'm just lost.
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So that's why I feel like control for me is very important.
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It keeps me feeling sane.
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But this month of July just got completely out of hand.
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I utterly obliterated my budget for July.
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Now I'll be honest with you, it's not as bad because I'm blessed and I have income.
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That's pretty good these days.
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It's keeping me going.
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It was just so far off from my goal.
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You know we did some things to the house and that we had been planning on.
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Well, we were planning.
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So this is how it goes.
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We've been talking for like four years about doing things to the house, right, but we didn't really say when we would do it, and so I've been setting aside some money for it.
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But then, because we have a kid coming in October, for whatever reason, it was just like, okay, this is the month, and we just looked at each other, mirror, like Chachin, let's go buy the stuff.
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And so it wasn't just the fridge and the dishwasher, but it was also, you know, their new recess lights, and it was this, and that is like I just pulled forward all the projects and just said July is the month and part of what I do when I do this.
00:12:31.057 --> 00:12:31.619
It was impulse.
00:12:31.619 --> 00:12:33.342
It, without a question, is impulse.
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It, I mean, you know, and this is how spending snowballs, you, you do the one thing, you let loose and you spend money after you have it in a while and you get that rush of return of, like the feet, the dopamine.
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It comes strong, and then you haven't had that kind of dopamine in a while, and so you just want more, you just want more, and so it was so much easier for me then, well, after I made the first decision and I bought the appliances so we really needed a fridge, like you should have seen the block of ice that came out of that freedom, that was broken.
00:13:05.572 --> 00:13:06.456
It was insane.
00:13:06.456 --> 00:13:16.724
But you do the one thing and Then, because you did the one thing, it's so much easier to do the next and the next and the next, and the next, and the next and the next.
00:13:16.724 --> 00:13:19.192
It's like breaking the dam.
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And so then the impulse of this just comes off and it probably it's because you were so tired from resisting all of your the impulse.
00:13:26.366 --> 00:13:31.121
But and you know, this podcast is actually going to just be whatever, it's just gonna, because I can't keep this going forever.
00:13:31.121 --> 00:13:35.402
So we're just gonna talk a little bit more about this, because now I want to thought that I think is useful.
00:13:35.402 --> 00:13:44.133
So this actually is a good real-time example of the improvement that I have made in life find my financial ability To recover.
00:13:44.133 --> 00:14:02.057
So if this was me before, having done the mental work before, having learned about Personal finance to the extent that I have over the past two years, before, I Honestly just was older, because when I was 27, I was just first of all in my 20s and so I wasn't fully mature, and I'm still not fully mature.
00:14:02.057 --> 00:14:10.399
I'm second of all, I probably have the maturity of a 20 year old because ADHD or just being too spoiled or you know, I mean like just whatever.
00:14:10.840 --> 00:14:26.899
So what I'm trying to say is Now that I've been tracky on Monarch first, you know pretty much this whole year I'm very keep very good close, look on, and even throughout this very high spending period on the house, I still have looked at it.
00:14:26.899 --> 00:14:27.614
I faced it.
00:14:27.614 --> 00:14:32.721
You know not as much and I avoided it a bit, but I'm looking at it and I'm accepting it.
00:14:32.721 --> 00:14:34.409
And I'm looking at August.
00:14:34.409 --> 00:14:50.090
I am on August and I'm studying the budget for August and I have this flood of confidence and it's so much easier for me to pivot back to me how I need to be, whereas before this I would never even spot until it was too late to stop.
00:14:50.090 --> 00:14:55.769
So that is the improvement that I've made, an improvement that you can make just simply by keeping at it.
00:14:55.769 --> 00:14:57.615
It's just and that's really all it is.
00:14:57.615 --> 00:15:08.313
Take the things of principles I laid out in the beginning of this podcast tracking on paper, using Monarch, just looking at it every day for five minutes, you'll make progress.
00:15:08.313 --> 00:15:15.956
Impulse control is a A strong goal, let's be real.
00:15:16.397 --> 00:15:18.883
Another one is cognitive flexibility.
00:15:18.883 --> 00:15:29.941
Cognitive flexibility is our brain's ability to shift between different thoughts or actions in response to changing situations.
00:15:29.941 --> 00:15:45.945
It's basically like our brain's ability to just transition from task to task and like efficiently do that and adapt to new environments and circumstances or change strategies when current ones are ineffective, and even just recognizing when it's ineffective.
00:15:45.945 --> 00:15:48.836
It's really a good skill to have.
00:15:48.836 --> 00:15:54.234
It's a great skill to have for problem-solving and planning and social interactions.
00:15:54.234 --> 00:16:01.695
Yeah, so cognitive flexibility that's like when my wife is like, hey, can you come do this thing?
00:16:01.695 --> 00:16:05.172
And my brain was like, well, I was gonna do this thing and that's what I really wanted to do.
00:16:05.172 --> 00:16:08.495
So it's like literally pulling my teeth sometimes too.
00:16:08.495 --> 00:16:14.183
For me to get up and do the other thing and switch my brain like I hit my cognitive flexibility is pretty bad.
00:16:14.205 --> 00:16:26.408
I'm just gonna tell you that right now and in finances, you're already overwhelmed enough trying to juggle tasks at work, trying to juggle your home life with the kids and with your marriage and with everything or you know, relationship, whatever.
00:16:26.408 --> 00:16:36.567
Then, when financial stuff comes up, you already want to avoid it and now you have to make change your plans financially and well, the rest is history for a lot of us.
00:16:36.567 --> 00:16:39.615
We just don't and we just continue on until we're forced.
00:16:39.615 --> 00:16:47.119
See, with finances it's so easy to do bury your head in the sand until you have no choice but to do something, and at that point it's very painful.
00:16:47.119 --> 00:16:49.326
And so cognitive flexibility.
00:16:49.326 --> 00:16:57.730
If we're just not really up to the neurotypical standard, then we're going to kind of struggle.
00:16:58.732 --> 00:17:00.878
So you have new income, you have a big bonus.
00:17:00.878 --> 00:17:01.847
What do you do with it?
00:17:01.847 --> 00:17:05.990
You're used to the paycheck and you're used to what you're doing and you know.
00:17:05.990 --> 00:17:07.558
And now you have this extra amount of money.
00:17:07.558 --> 00:17:08.765
What do you do with it?
00:17:08.765 --> 00:17:24.050
A lot of times you'll just do what the first impulse says, where you'll think about it for a long time and get all twisted up and then you'll just do something to just get rid of it, or just to like say, okay, I'm just gonna do this just so that you've done something and you can move on without really knowing if it was the right thing to do.
00:17:24.050 --> 00:17:34.410
Or you just do nothing and let it sit there, or you just throw it all at credit card debt, because that's the most pressing thing that you have, going on, when maybe there was more optimal things you could have done.
00:17:34.410 --> 00:17:38.451
It's very difficult just to think through this, and I hear this a lot from my clients.
00:17:38.451 --> 00:17:49.067
It's just like one of the things I constantly hear is that they just want my guidance when they have a little bit of a wind fall and the bonus or whatever they just, they just want to be told what to do with it, and I get it.
00:17:49.067 --> 00:17:50.130
I mean that's, it is nice.
00:17:50.130 --> 00:17:50.892
It is a nice thing.
00:17:50.892 --> 00:17:53.246
It's simple, but it is nice.
00:17:54.249 --> 00:18:02.612
Apart from doing like brain training or I don't know, like ask your therapist or your your psychiatrist what you can do to help your cognitive flexibility for realsies.
00:18:02.612 --> 00:18:06.025
But what you can also do is have financial guardrails.
00:18:06.025 --> 00:18:09.477
You can have a financial planner like me.
00:18:09.477 --> 00:18:11.683
You could have financial coach.
00:18:11.683 --> 00:18:16.041
You could have very strict rules set up with different accounts.
00:18:16.041 --> 00:18:23.010
You can create things to help you navigate the decision-making process, so that's easier when things do change.
00:18:23.010 --> 00:18:29.596
A financial planner, though, is like, probably your best bet, because I am one and you should be my client.
00:18:29.596 --> 00:18:42.800
Just kidding, but really that is part of the value of having a financial planner, because then, as soon as a financial question hits your head and you do not know the answer, you just have a human to ask who already knows all about your situation, and that is a nice thing.
00:18:42.800 --> 00:18:46.594
Ooh, this one's a biggie Task initiation.
00:18:47.355 --> 00:18:50.065
Task initiation is second to working memory.
00:18:50.065 --> 00:18:51.448
My, the worst.
00:18:51.448 --> 00:18:53.111
It's hard.
00:18:53.111 --> 00:18:56.096
It's hard whenever I do initiate the task.
00:18:56.096 --> 00:18:57.948
Finally it goes decently.
00:18:57.948 --> 00:19:00.654
But to start that task, I mean, boy, that is hard.
00:19:00.654 --> 00:19:06.299
It's always the task for me that is related to client work.
00:19:06.299 --> 00:19:16.917
So anything that has to do with a thing that I'm going to be delivering, that causes my perfectionism to kind of come up and just start to dominate my, my being.
00:19:16.917 --> 00:19:24.528
I get stuck and I'll just find little diddly squat things to do and not do the thing I should be doing until it's last second.
00:19:24.528 --> 00:19:31.086
Then I end up doing quality work that's not up to the quality that I would have liked, but I had to get it done because I had a meeting right.
00:19:31.086 --> 00:19:34.334
So that's my biggest problem is task initiation in finances.
00:19:35.435 --> 00:19:37.205
I'm okay with task initiation in finances.
00:19:37.205 --> 00:20:03.181
I'll tell you what I'm okay Because for me, task initiation for finances comes down to things like going in and up, looking at my 401k contributions, going to Monarch and organizing transactions and categorizing and looking at the budget, the plan page, and seeing how I'm doing, and sitting there for 20 minutes just staring at Monarch and moving things around, like I like doing that.
00:20:03.181 --> 00:20:04.031
I didn't used to.
00:20:04.031 --> 00:20:21.955
It was hard, but you know I do like it now and I'm okay with it For a lot of you out there, though I know it's very hard Taxes so hard to get started, so hard to even think like you're, just like five brain gymnastics moves away from even being able to consider starting some of the things that you know you need to start.
00:20:21.955 --> 00:20:24.797
So task initiation is a huge hard one.
00:20:24.797 --> 00:20:26.712
Oh boy, so hard.
00:20:26.712 --> 00:20:30.096
And from there I'm starting to get tired.
00:20:30.096 --> 00:20:30.898
I need to go take a nap.
00:20:30.898 --> 00:20:32.013
So let's just wrap this up.
00:20:32.769 --> 00:20:37.582
We've got emotional regulation is very related to retail therapy.
00:20:37.582 --> 00:20:40.159
It's very related to spending to get a dopamine fix.
00:20:40.159 --> 00:20:42.978
It's very a thing that's very, very real.
00:20:42.978 --> 00:20:45.093
What helps with this?
00:20:45.093 --> 00:20:46.852
Exercise?
00:20:46.852 --> 00:20:49.535
Feeling better helps with this.
00:20:49.535 --> 00:20:51.653
That's my experience.
00:20:53.289 --> 00:20:57.199
Solving the emotional situation at the core, at the root.
00:20:57.199 --> 00:20:58.442
Is it your relationship?
00:20:58.442 --> 00:21:01.598
Is it some sort of internal strife you have with yourself?
00:21:01.598 --> 00:21:04.679
Is it some sort of conflict with your family?
00:21:04.679 --> 00:21:06.015
What is it?
00:21:06.015 --> 00:21:08.089
Is it just your brain, your chemicals?
00:21:08.089 --> 00:21:12.080
Do you need to go see your psychiatrist and try different medication or whatever it is?
00:21:12.080 --> 00:21:24.477
If you're constantly having mood swings and you're emotionally a little bit unstable and you find yourself going to spending to solve any of that, you're in trouble, frankly.
00:21:25.292 --> 00:21:29.839
I mean, I've been there, I still go there, for sure Not as bad.
00:21:29.839 --> 00:21:31.232
I've read a lot of books.
00:21:31.232 --> 00:21:34.412
Books help read books the more you read.
00:21:34.412 --> 00:21:36.558
You just need to build up that armor of defense.
00:21:36.558 --> 00:21:41.382
You need to build up the knowledge of why it's bad to spend money you don't have.
00:21:41.382 --> 00:21:42.112
Why is it bad?
00:21:42.112 --> 00:21:43.657
What do you really want?
00:21:43.657 --> 00:21:47.279
Like I've said that a billion times what do you want?
00:21:47.279 --> 00:21:54.622
Money will not I mean things will not and cannot give you true, fulfilling happiness.
00:21:54.622 --> 00:22:03.836
Our economic system is set up in such a way that everyone is incentivized to make you think that, but it will not.
00:22:03.836 --> 00:22:21.117
Once the last time you had lasting joy like lasting true, every day, smile on your face, happiness from a thing you haven't, you won't but you would from having kids or having a great relationship or having great connections with family and friends.
00:22:21.117 --> 00:22:25.096
And that's where it's at, yo, that's where it's at.
00:22:25.096 --> 00:22:26.179
That's where it's at.
00:22:26.609 --> 00:22:33.884
So, exercise when you feel the urge to do real-time therapy, go outside and run a lap or think about your kids.
00:22:33.884 --> 00:22:34.491
That's that.
00:22:34.491 --> 00:22:35.174
That one helps me.
00:22:35.174 --> 00:22:41.020
I just think about you know, my daughter, and it makes me want to act right.
00:22:41.020 --> 00:22:46.444
And then, like, planning is an executive function that we ain't so good at.
00:22:46.444 --> 00:22:48.933
Organization we're not so good at.
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